Nest Coming from Finland create a style of music that many call neo-folk, but is in reality so original that it is impossible to describe, except the mood of the forest and the campfire that it brings up. I contacted A. Tolonen from Nest many months ago and now we have this up for your enjoyment. I thank him very very much for giving such excellent answers to a lengthy and comprohensive interview.
How are you?
I'm quite fine, thank you. I just got back home from a fine holiday, and I'm trying to get back to my normal routine.
Your music makes use of the Kantele, a Finnish folk instrument, for the readers who don't know what it is could you describe it and how it is played?
The kantele can be viewed as a horizontal harp, and resembles a zither, a dulcimer, and such. It is usually played with your fingers and by holding it on your lap or on a table in front of you. The most commonly used versions have 5, 10 or 36 strings, and with each string only producing one note (and flageolets, naturally), the more strings you have, the more options you also have. I personally use a 15-stringed one, which in addition to the string amount differs from a traditional model in other ways too. It has a built in pickup and a shoulder strap for live playing and otherwise securing the instrument to your body, and my favourite feature is its two bass strings that really give a nice powerful low end to the sound.
The kantele has a special place in our culture as national instrument of Finlandia. But this special status is both a blessing and a curse. The thing is honoured as half-mythical but at the same time this mystery results in people “looking down their noses” at it in a way. Many people seem find it ridiculous to use it in music nowadays. A common opinion goes along the lines of “It was enough for the folk of history, but it isn’t good enough anymore for the modern music of today”. Morons.
What do you want to express within your music?
The joy of creating – be it of music or of anything you can use your creativity on, the beauty and wonders of nature and animal life, and fantasy – the products of imagination. These are things that rank highly among the most interesting things in my life, and they go so well hand in hand that I decided to start making music that draws inspiration from them. One of the main points of focus is, however, that we encourage everyone to find their own interpretations of our music – to feel what they want to feel, and what speaks to them. There is no need in trying to follow our path by force, for first of all, now matter how simple a concept might seem it is not the most obvious one, and second, the listener might get more pleasure from his or her own journey.
How much does Finnish folk lore and folk poems, etc. influence and inspire your work?
They certainly are an inspiration, though mostly indirectly. We don’t deliberately focus on the aspect of something being exclusively Finnish in our music or the small amount of lyrics we have. Still, we do treat all things with a Finnish perspective, naturally, because that’s who we are. The things inherited from our mothers and fathers has resulted in the passion that drives us, so Finnish characteristics are sure to force their way through in our thinking and way of doing things. That being said, I must confess that we have done only one song that has a direct and evident connection with Finnish folklore, and that is to be found on our new album. It deals with the bear and borrows its themes the place bears had in the lives of pre-modern Finns.
What do you think of Agalloch's music, as you have done a split now with them, and they thanked you on their last cd?
I think Agalloch is nothing short of brilliant. Especially The Mantle is one of the most moving pieces of music I’ve heard to date. I love the way they combine acoustics with harsher stuff to create something I’d best describe as a flowing tapestry of sound. So soothing when it wants to be, but still able to crush the heart and spirit when roused. I’m very honoured to have worked with them on the split, and I’m even more honoured to have them as friends. Maybe we’ll join forces again on some obscure future occasion…
Who are some of your favorite bands in Finland right now?
Right now? Let’s see… The funeral doom masters Skepticism are one of my all-time favourite bands. Not only have they done one of my most loved albums, Stormcrowfleet, they also seem to be able to spew out consistent quality with each new album. And keeping in with the funeral doom theme, Shape of Despair is also going strong with two fine new releases to complete their line of classic earlier albums. Aarni is another commendable doom outfit with a unique handle on the genre. I also enjoy Battlelore who recently released a worthwhile new album of Tolkien-infuenced metal. Straying away from metal there’s Tenhi who never disappoint with their acoustic melancholia, and also Jääportit who have progressed quite a bit and now come up with excellent cold and spacey ambient. Last but not least, there are two bands worth mentioning: Nostatus and Poropetra. Both of them are steered by friends of mine and they both use the kantele in different folkish outcomes.
What do you think of the Viking metal bands like Moonsorrow, etc?
Moonsorrow is good stuff. Especially their latest album. I do like to listen to Viking metal, but only periodically. There can be times when I listen to such stuff quite a lot, and other times I can go for long without even touching those records. Good music, but I enjoy a couple of other styles a lot more.
How strong is the Christian influence in Finland? From what I understand it has become fairly anemic, if not always been so.
The Christian influence is not that strong. This is quite a secular country, and religious groups don’t have too much power, political or otherwise. I don’t know why this is. I mean our flag even bears the cross because of Christianity, but still most people are not devoutly religious, nor are they under hard influence of it. I’m not really the best person to talk about this, since I know so little of it. These are just my own observations and opinions, and they could be wrong.
I understand that Estonia has a close linguistic similarity to Finland, do you think the peoples are related, also do you think that the Finno-Ugraic (Hungarian) connection is strong? Many scholars now dispute that claim that Hungarian and Finnish is related.
I've also read that Finnish is connected to Mongolian and other Asiatic languages, but then other studies state they are fully Indo-European, which seems incorrect to me, what are your thoughts about the language issue all together?
Finnish and Estonian are indeed very similar languages, and Estonian is the only one close enough to Finnish that even those of us that have never studied Estonian can understand when spoken. I do believe our peoples are at least somehow related, but mixing of the peoples from both regions have occurred over time, as well as mixing with peoples from the Russian, Baltic and Scandinavian regions so with my poor knowledge of genetic history I can’t say which peoples were originally related.
The connection with Hungarian as far as language goes is not that strong, at least not to the layman, and if I remember correctly the only things looking and sounding similar in our two languages are just a couple of words. Grammar and all other things are different, so there’s no way we could understand each other’s talk or writing. I can see why many scholars would begin to doubt the connection.
There are people living in the areas around Ural that are connected to the Finno-Ugric and Finno-Permic language groups, but I have no idea whether Mongolian and some other Asiatic languages are related. The only languages I remember being related to Finnish in or near Asia include Mari, Erzya, Moksha, Livonian, Veps, Võro, and Votic, though I might have forgotten some. Nevertheless, I must stress that I’m no professional in these matters, so don’t take these things I’ve said as hard facts. I’m just reciting what I remember learning during various points in my life.
Since you have more access to Finnish folk literature (then I do), what have been some of the most important or interesting things you have discovered in your studies that English speakers and readers will probably never get to see or read?
One of the biggest things I’ve discovered is that there isn’t that much Finnish folk literature around. Most of the old stories were passed via word of mouth and therefore have mutated, or even worse, disappeared as time has passed. There is very little material in existence that would date back over a thousand years or so, and I’m quite sad about that, since I believe they would have been very interesting. I would especially be interested in old tales of life, hunting, animal stories and beliefs regarding them, etc.
On a more academic side, a friend of mine has recently discovered a book that he’s been praising a lot – Aurinkolaiva by Timo Heikkilä. He tells me that it’s the single most comprehensive study on ancient Finns he’s even come across, and I’ll be sure to read it once time permits. I haven’t seen it translated into English or any other language, at least not yet, so I’m afraid only we Finns have the opportunity to read it for the time being.
Would you consider your music Pagan or neo-folk, or however most people label it?
“Pagan” would be totally our of the questions, since our lyrical themes and such are all based on the products of imagination and the worlds inspired by old tales, and all things natural. It’s hard to imagine paganism in such a setting where the religions of the real world are not present. What comes to “neo-folk”, I don’t even know what the term “neo-folk” stands for anymore. I’ve heard so many different descriptions that I wouldn’t dare using it as a label for our stuff. I’ve even heard that it has connections to Nazism, which we certainly don’t support.
Categorizing our style has been a long-lasting dilemma. I like to think we have such a style, or more like a collection of styles, that I didn’t feel any of the existing labels really fit. Nest is not really folk, though the main element is a traditional acoustic instrument. Nest isn’t exactly ambient or darkwave either, but we use synths and ambient soundscapes a lot. We used to call our music atmospheric acoustic and ambient, and we did feel it captured the essence of this band well, but it was a bit wordy. Then one day a friend of mine came up with the term naturewave, and it fit our concept perfectly. It’s basically an alteration from darkwave with the elements of dark replaced with those of nature. I hope it’s not too far-fetched and people can grasp its meaning. I do acknowledge that nowadays just about every band and their grandmother are giving unique monikers to the music they play, but I felt it was so right we had to use it.
How do you think the lordships, first by the Swedes, and then the Russians affected Finnish culture? Many claim that is helped Finnish culture and language to become stronger, to band together, etc.
These things are always hard to answer, because we can’t really know what would have happened if thing had went any other way than they did. It sounds very reasonable that living under some other nation’s rule would help to unite the people and strengthen their comradeship. Actually, I don’t remember any point in history when the culture and ways of a conquered people would have diminished if they weren’t annihilated or scattered, but were left living in groups of their own kinsmen and mostly like they did before. This did indeed happen here in Finland and is quite well documented, especially when it happened under the Russians’ rule. Unfortunately, it’s been a while since I’ve studied this period in history, so I can’t give you a more thorough answer.
What do you think of the Kalevala?
It’s a fantastic piece of literature, though a bit contrived. It doesn’t really give a thorough insight into the Finnish storytelling tradition, since the poems and tales gathered for it were deliberately woven together and edited to resemble the national epics of other countries, such as the Odyssey of the Greeks etc. Nevertheless, the result is a solid story and entertaining to read.
Do you think anyone has successfully used the Kalevala for musical inspiration?
Sure. I’m very fond of what Amorphis did on their Tales from the Thousand Lakes album. I don’t read lyrics too often, since I want to form my own concept on music the music I listen to without trying to decipher what the lyricist is on about once again, but this is one of those few albums whose lyrics I’ve devoured quite greedily, I must admit. The Kalevala lends itself very well to the melodies, soundscape, etc. on that record and results in a very nice album lacking in neither joy nor sorrow, and possessing a very Finnish feel as I perceive it. Some of the Kalevala is unfortunately lost in translation (especially the rhymes at ending-of-words), but it still retains most of the feel of the original, and it’s very much fun to translate the English lyrics back into the Finnish ones while listening to it.
How much through Europe and Finland have you traveled, where are some places you have seen?
I haven’t been outside Finland for ages. The last time was over a dozen years ago, so these travels are not really recent information. I can’t even remember much of them. On the other hand I’ve roamed Finland quite a bit, though I mostly keep to places close to where I live or where I’ve already been, but from time to time, I like to widen the grounds I travel. I choose a direction, and go where the paths take me without thinking how I’m able to get back. I like spending time in the more rural areas and the north. Most of the time I’m stuck down south and working in a big city, so it’s vital to my mentality to be able to go to locales more peaceful. I love the lake areas and old forests with pine, spruce and birch. There aren’t many mountains or places of high elevation in Finland, but when I find one I’m sure to spend time there too.
How do you construct songs? How big of an influence is Finnish folk music when it comes to the notes you use, etc?
Almost all of Nest’s songs have begun with improvising on the kantele alone. I play on happily until I stumble upon a melody, riff, etc. that feels good enough to forge into a song. Taking the thing down onto the computer with which the rest of the instruments, synths, bass, drums, etc. are added, follows this. Vocals are always the last thing to be done. Even all nature sounds and effects are added before them. We don’t use much vocals, or lyrics, and when we do, we want to go the road less travelled. So far there haven’t been any usual verse-chorus structures and the like you seen in most music all the time.
As it is with folk stories, folk music also has an indirect influence on what I compose. I like some of it, and therefore it can seep into my compositions even unconsciously. I seldom copy notes from any other music. What I sometimes do, however, is that when I come across a certain atmosphere I study the elements of how it is made and strive to reproduce it in a different setting and with different elements. I love this type of exploration. It gives me a nice challenge. There is a problem, however. This type of juggling is completely subjective and what might reflect similar atmospheres to me might not do anything of the sort to other people. Still, feeling the music the same way as I do is not a requirement to enjoy it, and we do encourage people to experience our stuff with their own individual way.
What are some mediums that you know of (if any) that people outside of Finland can experience Finnish folk music, or study the musical construction of Finnish folk music?
The first thing I would recommend is to search for info and music clips on the Internet. This yields quite a nice array of options, especially when you search with the word “kantele”. I’m self-taught, so I don’t have much experience on where you can find theoretical knowledge on Finnish folk music except the traditional music department of Finnish libraries. If you want to go the road I went, you can get a load of music clips and study them – even copy them and see what makes them what they are. One of the most interesting ideas, in my humble opinion, is that especially in kantele music there is a great amount of complexity achieved from relative simplicity. When you only have 5 or 10 notes (as the strings can only produce one note) to work with, you have a challenge to make something a bit more complicated than what would immediately be evident from such restrictions.
How does the Finnish landscape and nature inspire you?
It is an immense source of inspiration. I feel at home the most in nature. Spending time outdoors and away from cities and such clusters of people is the most relaxing thing I know, and a great balancing force to the high tech world we live in. Even at the risk of sounding pretentious, I sometimes think that I could be happier living in times of old, maybe. I do acknowledge that as a modern human being accustomed to living in so called civilization I would have little chance for survival living in the wilds if I were transported to ancient times as I am now, but I can’t help but to wonder how things would be like had I been born to these earlier times.
Well, back to reality again, and to my other favourite point of interest, animals. I’m highly interested in animal life and consume all written, filmed and spoken information about their ways that I have time to. There are so many interesting things going on outside the life of humans that I’m often overwhelmed by the information and the wonders our wild cohabitants yield. I must say that I sometimes envy the apparent simplicity in which they live, though it is much more of a struggle than that of a modern human’s who is used to living among today’s conveniences. Still, they are free of some of the more absurd obligations we humans dance to. Can you say “money”, “time”, or even “politics”? (These are just examples, there are plenty more where these came from.) I hope people don’t take this like I hated humans, because I don’t. I see friends and family as the most important factors in my life, I’m just sad to witness certain aspects of humanity nowadays.
Would you consider yourself a Nationalist, or just interested in your nations history and folk-lore?
I’m definitely not a nationalist. History and folklore are important part of our heritance, but I do not believe in exalting one nation above all others or placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups. I simply love this land, and even more than history or folklore I love the actual land, the forests, the waters, the swamps and so forth. There are fine people everywhere, as there are wretched ones, but I’d be hard put to find the same kind of nature and surroundings elsewhere. I do not mean Finnish nature is “better” than any other country’s. What I mean is that I’m so securely bonded with this soil by memory and experience that I doubt I’d ever find stronger emotional impact elsewhere, though there are plenty of places outside our borders that I’d like to visit.
Is there any band you would consider yourself spiritually/musically similar to?
It’s hard to say about spiritual similarities, because I like to impose my own worlds on the music I listen to. There are plenty of bands dealing with themes of nature and fantasy, but I haven’t seen too many focusing on animal life yet. Musical similarities are easier to spot, but I honestly can’t pinpoint any other bands sharing our exact style, or even most of our style. One might say we share ambient and synthetic elements with the likes of Arcana, Dargaard, Raison’ d’être, etc., and acoustic elements with Tenhi, Agalloch, Empyrium, etc., though I don’t see much similarity in our playing and compositional style with theirs. Then there are also some other bands utilizing the kantele like Nostatus and Poropetra, the two mentioned earlier, but our musical styles are very different. I’m certain that all music I’ve heard and enjoyed has had an influence on the stuff I produce, but I can identify some distinct influences from bands such as Amorphis (Tales -era), The Third and the Mortal (up until and including Painting on Glass), Skepticism, and the like. I’m also a fan of old game music mostly from the Amiga era, and I’ve learned a lesson from their compositions, atmosphere, soundscape, etc. I’m quite fond of coming across various atmospheres in the music styles I like, and to a lesser extent even in those I don’t like, and trying to capture their essence in Nest’s music, which is usually quite different from the stuff in which I’ve experiences the atmosphere in the first place. Our forthcoming material might show the fruits of this labour more evidently with attempts to recreate certain emotions from doom metal, a style I enjoy very much.
When can we expect a new album?
We should be done recording this autumn. Hopefully it will not take too long to get the album released after that. I can’t give you any exact information on a release date, month or even the season it will come. Please keep an eye on Nest’s website to get information when it’s time.
As an artist/painter, how do you paint your artwork (as in acrylic, oil, etc.) and what kind of images/emotions inspire your art?
I mostly use pastels and coloured pencils for colour work. I’m not that good with a brush, so I haven’t used oils, acrylics, or similar that much. I would love to do more watercolours, however. I love the look that can be achieved with them. When working with black and white and greyscale, I prefer charcoal, pencils, ink, and liquid ink. Working with liquid ink is actually one of the rare occasions when I can produce something worthwhile with a brush.
Now, my inspiration for visual art has a broader scope than with music. When making music for Nest I naturally focus on certain themes that give it life. I have no such “restrictions” with visuals since I do them for all kinds of occasions other than just one single project. Of course, the visuals I do for Nest are chained to Nest’s themes, but I do a lot more too. So, a cheap answer to your question would be that everything is an inspiration for my visuals. Everything that moves me be it nature, emotions, love, pain, apathy, I welcome everything. The only requirement is that it moves me. I like finding new sources for inspiration and not being caught traversing the same circles over and over.
Do you have anything to say that I might have missed?
Oh man. With such an extensive interview I can’t think of anything missing at the moment. Just be sure the authorities never get a hold of this document.
Any final thoughts for the Tmetal.com readers?
If you’ve managed to read this far, I salute you. Thank you for your interest. May you have good times with Nest’s humble music and even without it if you so insist.
Thanks a lot for the interview.
The pleasure was all mine. Thank you too for this thorough and stimulating congregation of words.